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#38645 - 08/24/06 10:34 AM Re: custodian refusing to sign off UGMA
ParrRemedy Offline
Member

Registered: 04/26/05
Posts: 1163
It may be that daughter needs to file an action against custodian in Surrogates Court in NY--so if she cannot jawbone Dad or SB into delivery she may need to play hardball!

Again your guess is that Dad raided the accounts and he has a lot to lose if that card is properly played?

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#38646 - 08/24/06 10:46 AM Re: custodian refusing to sign off UGMA
tjkohler Offline
Moderator

Registered: 06/24/04
Posts: 532
Loc: Michigan
This is what really ticks me off about our legal system. It's not there for the everyday person. She should simply be able to go to the police station, tell a cop what's going on, show him the rules from a government website, and the cop walks into Smith Barney and demands a check. Plain and simple. But instead she'll be forced to pay a lawyer to write a letter, then their lawyer will write a letter, and nothing will happen. Have you tried to contact another Smith Barney employee and see if you can get them working for you?

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#38647 - 08/24/06 02:11 PM Re: custodian refusing to sign off UGMA
ParrRemedy Offline
Member

Registered: 04/26/05
Posts: 1163
Its not clear so far if the bad apple is SB or Dad or both.

Some states require that custodian affirmatively surrended the account to newly minted adult (CA) and if custodian balks you must go beat up on custodian, other states merely require that person present herself with proof of age to the account holder (brokerage firm) and said 3 d party is held harmless by law, 3d party turns it over. If 3d party refuses you go after 3d party.

I do NOT know which way the law twists for NY as to UGMA's and am not an attorney.

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#38648 - 08/25/06 06:05 PM Re: custodian refusing to sign off UGMA
asalwaysSSG Offline
Member

Registered: 08/18/06
Posts: 13
Loc: NY
Hello all. Thank you all for responding. I haven't the time to continue the saga at the moment. I will update the situation later tonight (or tomorrow am). I am angry, and confused, but mostly, I must say, I am sadden over it all. _peace.

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#38649 - 08/26/06 10:35 AM Re: custodian refusing to sign off UGMA
asalwaysSSG Offline
Member

Registered: 08/18/06
Posts: 13
Loc: NY
On Friday (8/25), SB advisor called me to "share" their legal departments ruling on my daughter's UGMA, which is that effective Jan 1997, UTMA supersedes UGMA. Under UTMA the age of termination is 21. HOWEVER, from my reading of New York Estates Powers & Trusts Law (Article 7, Part 6 Uniform Transfers to Minors Act) there is a provision for existing custodianships (i.e., UGMA) which states the age of termination in effect prior to Jan 1, 1997 shall remain in effect with respect to such accounts.

So, you see, SB' legal department is clearly mistaken.

My daughter, who is now in Hawaii, as the owner of an UGMA, will send a certified letter to the NY SB advisor requiring both the owner's and custodian's signature for any transactions of her account, until the account is completely turned over to her.

I have an appointment to see another financial advisor (an independent agent) - and will ask his opinion in regard to custodianship and the transfer to a former minor.

My daughter will go to SB in Honolulu, armed with the appropriate information (NY EPTL, Birth certificate, DL, Section 6.08 of the Securities Transfers Association Guidelines)... we'll see where that takes her. I think she should also be able to obtain documents that were originated upon opening the UGMA. Surely, SB's UGMA forms clearly state the custodian's rights and obligations to the minor.

The age of termination may not matter at all, by the time we get this thing settled... in November my daughter will be 21 anyhow.

If her father still refuses to relinquish control of her UGMA, then her only alternative will be to take her father to court.

I think SB should have an established protocol for the transfer of UGMA accounts.. which apparently it does not.

Incredibly frustrating..... (ha! and my ex stated that I was vindictive with money!! Now that's projection, if I ever saw it.)

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#38650 - 08/26/06 09:20 PM Re: custodian refusing to sign off UGMA
rsinj Offline
Member

Registered: 11/16/03
Posts: 1158
Good luck with this - please keep us informed as to how it's progressing (or not progressing).

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#38651 - 08/27/06 08:52 PM Re: custodian refusing to sign off UGMA
ParrRemedy Offline
Member

Registered: 04/26/05
Posts: 1163
I would be most suprised if an existing UGMA in NY with an age of 18 was automatically indexed up to age 21 when UTMA's were enacted a few years ago in NY.

Were I in your shoes I'd ask for a copy of that ruling inwriting and post it here for others to review. I'll just be that SB waffles to release it to you in writing. Then again I've been known to be wrong.

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#38652 - 08/31/06 11:44 PM Re: custodian refusing to sign off UGMA
itstoomuch Offline
Member

Registered: 01/01/06
Posts: 972
Loc: salem, OR
Our SB guy said about the same thing. We however are not divorced and also had the funds in a UGMA custodianship with the stipulation that it was to be used for college or if successful for son's future independence. We recently released the custody but even then the SB wanted to know if I was still going to monitor account and if the recent 21er understood investment risks. Kudos to broker.

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#38653 - 09/01/06 12:25 PM Re: custodian refusing to sign off UGMA
ParrRemedy Offline
Member

Registered: 04/26/05
Posts: 1163
I'm not sure that technically one can attach a condition to a UGMA transfer.

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#38654 - 09/01/06 10:46 PM Re: custodian refusing to sign off UGMA
itstoomuch Offline
Member

Registered: 01/01/06
Posts: 972
Loc: salem, OR
SB guy want to know what we wanted to happen: college funds to be used in "next" 4 years of college, any left over its kid's but for use for further ed or investment purposes. I know it kept me from over speculation. I don't know if it was a condition or not. I pay the guy full comm and I expect him to keep me and investments in line to goals.

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